When I was in my early thirties, I consulted for a company that inspected certain existing and new buildings to make sure they complied with applicable standards. During one such inspection, I accompanied a very, very attractive administrator to an almost-completed facility, “just to make certain there were no last minute things (they) needed to do”.
It seemed a reasonable request and being the somewhat innocent southern woman I was back then, it never occurred to me to be even slightly worried about going. I was a professional, he was a professional, no problem.
At one point during the walk-through, he made a pass. It wasn’t the first pass I had ever rebuffed and being the sort of person who hated hurting even a jerk’s feelings, I was sure I could very nicely put him in his place.
Not so.
Things eventually escalated and I left him lying on the floor gripping his crotch in sheer agony. Given how hard I kneed him, it’s a good possibility he’s still lying there. If he’s not, I suspect he never had an erection again. Either scenario is ok with me since he attempted to rape me.
I never reported that incident to anyone. I, a very average looking, chubby nurse had accompanied a very, very attractive doctor I did not know to a remote location. I was afraid at the time that either no one would believe someone like him would have to force someone like me, or they would think I deserved it.
Now, older, wiser, and more self-confident, I’m not sure it would be prudent to do anything different if I were alone and it was my word against his. Here’s why:
A majority of women believe some rape victims should take responsibility for what happened, a survey suggests.
Almost three quarters of the women who believed this said if a victim got into bed with the assailant before an attack they should accept some responsibility.
One-third blamed victims who had dressed provocatively or gone back to the attacker’s house for a drink.
According to Sky News:
Nearly a fifth (19%) of females said the victim should accept partial responsibility if they go back to their attacker’s house.
And one in eight thought a victim who dances in a provocative manner on a night out is also to blame for any consequences.
I do not even know how to respond to such thinking. How can anyone ever feel comfortable about reporting a rape if this many *women* believe it’s the fault of the victim?
This has been on my mind for a couple of days now, and yes, if it happened again, I would report it. It might not be wise but at the very least, I’d cast doubt on my attacker’s reputation. And, HE would know *I* didn’t let him win even if other people did.
~
*This is not a story I generally tell people and most certainly not strangers. I’m speaking up in the hopes that people will discuss this issue and perhaps, as a result, change their thinking. I prefer no comments on my personal situation but I would enjoy hearing your thoughts on the issue in general. Do you agree with the majority of British women? If you do, I won’t take it as a commentary on me or my situation, so please feel free to speak your mind.
No related posts.
I know this won’t be popular but women are responsible sometimes. You can only push a man so far. If she’s in bed with him and at the last minute says stop then she’s more responsible than he is.
I’ll give you an example of when it is the woman’s fault. Sometimes women get drunk and have sex with people and then the next morning they are embarassed and want to save face so they cry rape
Women are our biggest enemy. Many men think it is ok to rape a woman because women essentially say it is with this kind of attitude..
I respectfully disagree with the notion that women are responsible for rape – as it’s scientifically impossible to rape oneself. That said, women can still reduce their likelihood of getting raped. It’s obviously not a good idea to wander inner-city alleys alone in the middle of the night. Or assist Ted Bundy-like men with their errands. Or accept open bottles of beer from dubious frat boys. Or go camping alone for any length of time. Or dress in any fashion that suggests you are not an Amish woman.. Okay, maybe that last one’s an exaggeration, but you get the point.
In college, I lived in an off-campus apartment little over a mile away from the main campus. It was a large, rural, New England school, but with all the parking impossibilities of a Boston campus. Every now and then, especially around finals week, I’d find myself trekking back to my relatively isolated apartment at 2:30 in the morning, when the library closed. Nothing bad ever happened, and I didn’t expect it to. But, there was always that little twinge of unease. And, frankly. I doubt there’s a woman anywhere who can’t readily identify that feeling, or associate it with being somewhere alone and isolated at night.
Fortunately, random attacks are on the rarer end of the rape spectrum. The best possible way to avoid being raped, statistically, is to simply boycott men who believe that a woman’s consent is somehow optional. I think it’s pretty black and white here. Yes means yes. No means no. Easy peasy. Most guys get this, I think, and the ones who don’t are relatively easy to avoid. They give off their own vibe. They’re a little bit contemptuous of women, and perhaps a little misogynistic. Both qualities turn me off.
A friend of mine was date raped, and – before there’s any doubt as to the legitimacy of that claim – she was drugged. To the gills. Without her knowledge. And this girl has never even smoked pot. It’s kind of sad, how quick many people are to doubt a rape victim’s claim, or disregard her suffering, considering that around 1 in 6 women have/will experience sexual assault at some point in life. And those are conservative stats. At least 60% of rapes are not reported at all, and very few assailants – reported or not – will ever face recrimination.
Call me a feminazi, but I happen to think that most uncool. And, to let rapists off the hook – “oh, he couldn’t help it,” – seems almost as great an insult to men in general as it is an injustice to the victims. I know many good, caring guys who would such association deplorable.
When I was in my early thirties,
Oh, you mean last year? :-)
I do feel that women need to take responsibility for their actions if this can lead to rape. We had a case here where two drunks had sex in a park but the man was charged with rape. I have to wonder why he was held accountable for his action when he was drunk but she was not. If the woman had got into a car and driven it we would hold her accountable but when it comes to sex all blame and responsibility is laid on the man.
Hi Lady Julia:
Growing up in NYC I know about this sort of thing first hand. Two of my female friends lost their virginity to rape: both were barely into their teens and very physically attractive. One was raped in her own vestibule at knife point. Her father blamed her for letting the attacker in. The other lost her virginity at gun point in the park.
Regardless of the circumstances it is never o.k. to rape a woman. No means no. Period. Any one who says it’s o.k. to commit rape for any reason is an ignorant buffoon and a misogynist. Good for you for kneeing that doctor in the nuts! ;-)
Best
hmp
It seems so very obvious to me (and I’m sure to the other men who enjoy this blog) that there could NEVER be any “excuseable” reason to rape woman. Even if she is your wife, dancing naked, and taunting you with provocative words– “No” means NO at the moment she says it.
To be clear — the survey said “Some responsibility” not “Full responsibility”.
Let’s change the situation a little. If I wave a bunch of cash around in front of a bunch of gang members then go walking down dark alleys alone at night, when I get hit over the head and robbed, whose fault is it? Okay, no one made those gang members rob me, but don’t I need to accept some responsibility? If nothing else, weren’t my actions incredibly stupid?
That doesn’t mean the gang members are innocent. It just means I was stupid. And I should accept my share of responsibility for that. It doesn’t forgive the robbers even the slightest — what they did was still wrong. But what I did was wrong and stupid too.
A woman shouldn’t get in bed with a man if she doesn’t want to be there. Getting in bed and then saying no — well, it should still mean no, and if he then rapes her, he should go to jail for it. After castration. However… she shouldn’t set the situation up in the first place, either. Even if he’s a total gentleman and says “Okay”, it’s still horribly rude and mean of her.
On the flip side… I suspect that when a woman ends up in bed with a guy and then says “no”, but then gets raped — I suspect the guy was exerting an awful lot of pressure. The only thing she’s guilty of at that point is not saying “no” more firmly and much earlier, to hell with his feelings, and leaving.
I guess ultimately we should each take responsibility for our own actions.
As for “no” meaning “no” — women are their own worse enemies on this as well. Women playing hard to get train men that “no” frequently means “try harder”. Go read any romance novel, all written by women, read by women en masse, and they’re filled with women saying “no, no, no” until finally she succumbs to his muscular body and devilishly rakish good looks and screams “take me!”
If “no” is supposed to mean “no”, then women need to stop using it when they mean “try harder”.
And before someone jumps on me that men should be able to tell the difference, ask yourselves: do you really think men who are willing to be rapists are going to be able to distinguish between the subtleties?
All that being said, rapists should still have their nether parts slowly fed to baby sharks. You know, with small teeth so it takes a while.
My view is that men have initiated the link between women’s responsibility to look out for themselves and some men’s inability to control their desire. That a percentage of women also believe this is probably just testament to thousands of years of male domination over women.
To be clear, a woman’s responsibility for her own safety is NOT directly linked to rape. The *concept* that there is a link is just that, a concept.
“No” means “no” and anyone who says differently is just trying to excuse the inexcusable. To be fair, many women have been conditioned to believe rape is their fault. Conditioned by men. If not directly then indirectly.
To be fair to western society, we are moving towards change for the better, (though there is a long, long way to go). Still, if you think women have it bad here, look to many third world countries where women are still legally regarded as property and can be beaten or even killed on the mere suspicion of infidelity, … while men may rape with impunity. I will now quote what a Tibetan man once said to me.
“Man have desire, cannot stop. Nothing can do. Man want sex, woman should help. Woman not help and man rape woman, woman should keep quiet. Woman talk, then big problem. Woman sad, sure. Mother sad, sure, but woman talk then makes big problem. If make law to put man in prison for rape, then man have to kill woman and that not good. Best woman just be quiet.”
I nearly punched his lights out.
My point in all of the above is simply this, when anyone stops caring about the feelings of someone else and knowingly hurts that person, a crime has taken place. Saying the woman “was asking for it” is just twisting the knife.
Arafin
We had a case here where two drunks had sex in a park but the man was charged with rape. I have to wonder why he was held accountable for his action when he was drunk but she was not.
You’re assuming the sex was consensual. If it was consensual, it’s not rape. Being drunk is no excuse to rape a woman. Being drunk does not take away your right to say no.
You can only push a man so far. If she’s in bed with him and at the last minute says stop then she’s more responsible than he is.
Why? He knows her changing her mind is a possibility. Are you saying men have no self-control after a certain point? Bullshit. That’s an excuse.
However… she shouldn’t set the situation up in the first place, either. Even if he’s a total gentleman and says “Okay”, it’s still horribly rude and mean of her.
You’ve never reached a point where you said “this is a bad idea” and backed away? Never changed your mind?
As for “no” meaning “no” — women are their own worse enemies on this as well. Women playing hard to get train men that “no” frequently means “try harder”. Go read any romance novel, all written by women, read by women en masse, and they’re filled with women saying “no, no, no” until finally she succumbs to his muscular body and devilishly rakish good looks and screams “take me!”
If “no” is supposed to mean “no”, then women need to stop using it when they mean “try harder”.
If having a fantasy means that this person deep down wants it and that justifies it, then a whole lot of submissive men need to line up and get their dicks cut off or have their wives cuckold them. Or be ass raped. Or have the shit beat out of them. You’ve never had fantasies you would never want to happen?
The no means yes situation is easily interpreted if anyone with a brain tries. My advice for anyone who is unsure: USE YOUR WORDS. Ask if she really means yes. If she doesn’t say she really means yes then stop. Be a man and suck it up. Punish her by never seeing her again, not by raping her.
Do you really think men who are willing to be rapists are going to be able to distinguish between the subtleties?
If they’re willing to be rapists they aren’t worried about distinguishing are they?
I think women are afraid to admit they have responsibility in this because they don’t want to feel this awful thing is partly their fault. That is understandable. Most women usually have problems admitting they are wrong anyway so it fits even if this wasn’t violence.
“I think women are afraid to admit they have responsibility in this because they don’t want to feel this awful thing is partly their fault.”
Unless the woman you describe has some sort of involuntary, telekinetic control over the guy’s cock – resulting in an outcome that neither of them intended – I fail to see how she brought about her own rape. Sure, safety’s important. I have a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and a can of pepper spray in my purse. I’m prepared to use both. Aside from going out with friends, I’m rarely out late at night. When I go out partying, I never accept drinks from guys I don’t know, unless I’m at the bar… watching the drink being made… and it passes directly from the bartender’s hand to mine. I never leave drinks unattended. I scrutinize men pretty carefully when I date, though the sort of men I like to avoid are pretty easy to spot. I avoid men with quick anger triggers. I avoid men with the tendency toward violence. Most of all, I avoid men who hate women. Such men are often very transparent – they’re not at all shy about expressing their contempt and derision toward women – and I’m more than happy to stay out of their way.
“Most women usually have problems admitting they are wrong anyway so it fits even if this wasn’t violence.”
Ah. I see. Perhaps, the totality of womankind hasn’t been raped or brutalized enough to see the error of our ways. I’ve been wrong many times, on many topics, (and I’ll easily admit it) but that does not make me any more deserving of brutality than you are – by virtue of your being a man.
I guess Nicole Simpson also deserved what she got for divorcing her nasty sociopath of a husband?
Well I didn’t want to admit this and never have before but having been subject to unwanted sex a number of times throughout my life I am of the opinion that the prisons would be completely overcrowded and world productivity would be seriously diminished if all the men that didn’t understand no and continued to press for sex were prosecuted and punished by society.
Even when women do everything right, rape happens.
It isn’t their fault if this does happen but all women should be savvy enough to know what to do to reduce the risks.
I think it’s a sad commentary on our judicial system when women are afraid to come forward and reveal they have been assaulted. On the flip side, it’s terrible that innocent men go to jail for a rapes they do not commit. It is a pity in all the years the lie-detector has been in existance that they haven’t been able to perfect it enough to help in situations like that.
When I was a young man, I awoke once on an empty stretch of beach with a raging hangover, and sharp pain in my ass. The guy I had met the night before was probably on his flight back home by then, and I assume he had something to do with the pain, and definitely something to do with the hangover, as he had supplied the booze from his travel bag. I wonder how the survey would have judged my subsequent behavior. I never mentioned the incident to anyone, whether friends or the officers of the Navy unit where I was stationed, mostly because of shame or embarassment. It did not occur to me until a few years later to think of this as an “unwanted” sexual experience, but it was, since I was too drunk to express my wants. I do agree with the majority of the British women polled that some responsibility should be assumed by some victims of unwanted sex, but that said, no one should get away with assault and/or sexual battery.
Rumi, I’m so very sorry that happened to you :(
Doll, I’m so sorry you’ve been so hurt :(
So many women are willing to blame rape on the victim at least partially because they want to deny that rape is something that could happen to them, so they believe that if they avoid certain actions, they could avoid rape.
There is no form of deception as effective as self-deception.
Ok, I’m late to the party here…
My opinion is that there is no valid reason a woman (or a man) should ever be raped. And there is no “sharing” of responsibility. If you put yourself at risk by your actions, say by walking alone in a dark alley at night, then you weren’t very smart, but it takes away none of the responsibility of the rapist. Responsibility for raping/violence is not something that can be divided up between attacker and victim. One is stupid and puts themselves at risk, the other is fully responsible for their act of violence.