I follow quite a few blogs written by men who profess a desire to be submissive to their vanilla or even submissive wives. As a rule, they began their blogs with the story of how they convinced their wives to “dominate” them or how they are attempting to persuade them to do so.
Some of these men try so hard to make their “female led” relationship as positive for their spouse as possible. They seem to want to make it about her more than anything else. For the most part these blogs fade away because the attempt fails. Usually the woman is not interested or only marginally makes an effort to understand her spouse’s needs.
Others set out to “convince” (guilt) their wives into “dominating” them so that all the male’s sexual needs can be met. The woman’s comfort level and needs are usually very secondary to the intense needs of her partner. (I read recently where a submissive suggested he be “punished” by not being allowed to give his wife orgasms for a week. Umm.. who is being punished here? Perhaps him.. but wouldn’t she be punishing herself as well??) These forays into “femdom” relationships seem to last longer but eventually, most reports of these efforts seem to disappear as well.
In both these scenarios it seems to me that there is one partner being sexually selfish, however the thought that they are being selfish seldom seems to flit across their minds. Why? Perhaps they feel there’s “nothing” they can do… but is that true? Perhaps they don’t care. Selfish people often don’t. Or perhaps they’re just a bit clueless.
Clues that someone is being sexually selfish?
- An unwillingness to discuss their partner’s needs on more than the most superficial level. Putting the discussion off for as long as possible.
- Making few if any attempts to carry out their partner’s suggestions or meet their requests.
- Beginning any discussion of sexual needs or changes with the word “I” and generally keeping it there.
- Utilizing guilt to get what they want.
- An unwillingness to accept when a request really isn’t something their partner feels comfortable doing.
There are others, I’m sure. I realize these should be obvious to anyone, but I really don’t think they are to some people.
In the end, I believe a relationship in which one partner is sexually selfish is doomed to fail. Oh, they may stay together, but neither will be happy. Perhaps it would be better to meet somewhere in the middle rather than to lose everything.
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Lady Julia,
Thank you for the information. I am always interested in suggestions and recommendations on what to do and what not to do. Let me call it proper training or improvement suggestions. God knows I need all the help I can get.
Rob
(I read recently where a submissive suggested he be “punished” by not being allowed to give his wife orgasms for a week. Umm.. who is being punished here? Perhaps him.. but wouldn’t she be punishing herself as well??)
I’m often amazed – and horrified – at chastity enthusiasts who make similar requests. “Please lock me up for a year and take other lovers.” Say what? I often wonder how men would react if their wives or partners said “I want to be locked in a chastity belt for a year, and never to be allowed to come.”
Likewise, I’ll always remember a woman who visited a chastity group, writing that she was trying to please her man, but he kept making impossible requests. “Oh no, the Mistress is never to give oral to the lowly slave,” he insisted. The thing is, she *liked* to do that – so who’s really in charge?
I often have a difficult time reading some of those blogs in which the man (usually the husband) simply posts fantasies and desires and a wish list, but never anything about what he and his wife are trying to do in order to get to some middle ground. I also have a difficult time reading the blogs in which the man seems to be pushing his wife into some kind of lifestyle that she has no desire for. I call them the “passive aggressive” blogs because the wife generally seems to resist any suggestion by being tired or not in the mood.
It’s real easy for you to call someone sexually selfish because you are single and can dump anyone who doesn’t do things your way. Unless I want to pay I can’t find anyone to dominate me. Even if I could find someone I couldn’t leave my wife because we have small children.
I HAVE NEEDS THAT OVERWHELM ME.
I feel like screaming it because people like you don’t get it. I have deep seated compelling needs and without them being met I am miserable. Even though my wife was vanilla she is trying to be a Domme now because she loves me and doesn’t want me to feel like this. She has a hard time understanding how to do what I need but she is learning.
I have a right to expect my needs to be met.
Interesting post. Well written and to the point.
Sara’s Slave does your wife profess to enjoy dominating you? Does she do it without prompting or nagging from you? Be honest.
I think this, Lady Julia.
Whenever we mistake ‘needs’ for ‘wants’, we lose reality.
Whenever we project onto others ‘wants’ and declare them ‘rights’, we abuse reality.
When we step into abuse, we have lost all wisdom.
When we lose our wisdom, it’s time to seek help in discovering our mistaken self.
Respectfully,
willie
Lady Julia,
I believe you have your teaching hat on again. You always teach such wonderful lessons for the student that is willing to learn.
In the past, you have often mentioned the idea of topping from the bottom. The sub has needs and wants them to be met – “Dominate me the way I want and do it NOW!”
In most lasting relationships, both parties needs should be met. Hence, your idea of meeting in the middle.
Communication is important. People really aren’t good at reading the minds of others – especially, in the middle of sex. Partners should find a way to discuss their wants and needs.
Here’s a nonsexual example of meeting in the middle. At the moment, I’m sitting in the house with the A/C running. I’m a little on the cold side; but I know that Ms. Will is a little on the warm side. She likes the temperature a little lower than I do. Twenty years ago, I would move the thermostat up and she would come behind me and lower it.
Then we agreed on a temperature in between the two. I can be a little cold and she decided to take off a little more clothes ;-) (which has been known to warm me up some).
Boy, I do like warm weather. ;-) (mind wandering off on other thoughts).
Will
Sara’s Slave,
It’s real easy for you to call someone sexually selfish because you are single and can dump anyone who doesn’t do things your way.
I didn’t identify anyone individually as sexually selfish. Only you and your spouse know if you are.
Kindly do not assume you know me and how easy it is for me to walk away from a relationship. Oh and by the way, I may be a Domme, but I know how to compromise, especially when it is something important to him.
I HAVE NEEDS THAT OVERWHELM ME.
Everyone has wants. Everyone has needs. It’s important to be able to differentiate between the two. Do you know what your wife’s wants and needs are? Since you are her slave (you identified yourself as such by your name), I am assuming her needs and desires are as important to you as yours are?
I have deep seated compelling needs and without them being met I am miserable. Even though my wife was vanilla she is trying to be a Domme now because she loves me and doesn’t want me to feel like this. She has a hard time understanding how to do what I need but she is learning.
I have a right to expect my needs to be met.
It seems as if your wife is a lovely person. If you are both happy then there isn’t a problem, is there? You are both happy, right?
Thank you everyone for your insightful comments :)
I agree some people are very unrealistic about their sexual needs. I cringe when I read about men who want to approach their wives with this idea;
“Honey, great news. I want you to be in charge of everything from now on. Our finances, the household, the bedroom, me, everything. It’s all on you. I’ll be over here pleasuring myself with the laundry if you need me.”
Gee thanks.
Most women would call that abdication of responsibility.
Nor sexy or desirable especially if she married you with the expectation you’d be an equal partner.
That said, sensually dominating or being dominated by your lover in the bedroom can be really hot and it’s actually pretty mainstream these days.
Not that I read them, but I have heard that most women’s erotica/romance books now feature a scene of two where the heroine ties up the hero and has her wicked way with him. It’s not really about dominance but more about women embracing and enjoying their sexuality as opposed to just being a passive sperm receptacle.
Sex toys are a billion dollar industry so there’s a lot of people playing all types of bedroom games. By necessity that’s what kink is for most people, adult playtime. You play a role and then go back to the realities of daily life.
He wears the Sponge Bob Square Pants costume one night; you dip yourself a vat of Dijon mustard the next.
Again just speculation on my part.
I’ve been rather busy so am arriving at this thread late. After reading the first nine comments I am struck by the same thing that always strikes me when reading about the topic of one person trying to convince their vanilla partner to dominate them. Missing the point of D/s. Perhaps Hollywood is to blame. What is portrayed about D/s in film and on TV seldom goes any deeper than the superficial appearance, the cool looking PVC corsets and those wicked boots. It is all sold as “fun”, and as such, is not taken very seriously. Sometimes a film like Secretary goes a bit further, but even then there is little exploration of why some people feel compelled to dominate or submit.
In a consensual D/s relationship the person who enjoys dominating derives pleasure from knowing that their submissive trusts them to exert control. There is a mutual understanding arrived at via informed consent. The Dom/me also enjoys the feeling of control and hopefully enjoys the pleasure this produces in the sub. The submissive here enjoys trusting the Dom/me, enjoys pleasing the Dom/me, and enjoys being cared for. In order for D/s to work in this setting it must be symbiotic with each person needing what the other brings, what the other person is. Role play may look like real D/s, and in some cases may be, but the real thing has at it’s core mutual respect and compassion. No serious and meaningful connection between two people can last without this. The deeper the type of D/s, the more vital this core becomes, all the way from light role play to slavery to robots.
If you are a person who is not currently being dominated and you think you need that, I would suggest that you first explore literature about what is really entailed. Then, if it still feels like a good thing to pursue, examine your existing relationship and try to put yourself in the other person’s shoes. If it still seems as if it might work, talk to your partner in an open an honest way without exerting pressure. Get the other person’s opinion about D/s rather than trying to sell yours. Listen carefully. When the answer is given try to understand it, especially if it is not what you hoped to hear. If open and honest communication is necessary to maintain a vanilla relationship then it is doubly so in D/s.
It’s easy to have eyes bigger than your stomach. What a person thinks they need only matches what they really need when they care most about what the other person needs. No D/s monopoly there.
Sheesh! Is it possible “not to be selfish” when it comes to sex? The more you dig in, the more you are likely to come out on the other side.
Show me a selfless sexist, and I will show you one who has it all figured out about what he wants done to him, how, when, and by whom.
Arafin,
I’d almost forgotten how pretentious the whole D/s thing is.
Thanks for the reminder.
S,
Not really sure what you mean there by D/s being pretentious. I don’t think that was what I was trying to convey. May I ask you to explain?
In any given relationship, it’s more likely to work when both people are fulfilled by the nature of the relationship. Call it wants. Call it needs. If you’re miserable without it, maybe it’s not simply a want.
Virtually every relationship includes compromise. The man may not get a corset-clad dominatrix for a wife. The woman may not be getting Fabio. But if both parties can focus on fulfilling the other’s wants and needs, it’ll go a long ways towards mutual satisfaction.
There’s nothing wrong with say, “I’d like it if you did this.” The problem is when it’s one-sided. When one asks and never gives. Or when the giving is just extremely imbalanced.
“Sheesh! Is it possible “not to be selfish” when it comes to sex? ”
Can someone be both selfish and submissive when it comes to sex?
Susan’s Pet,
Sheesh! Is it possible “not to be selfish” when it comes to sex? The more you dig in, the more you are likely to come out on the other side.
Show me a selfless sexist, and I will show you one who has it all figured out about what he wants done to him, how, when, and by whom.
I’m not entirely sure if I understand your point. Someone who is selfless has little or no concern about themselves. Someone who is selfish is mostly or completely concerned with their own needs. Either is ok, I guess, as long as one is in a relationship with someone who is their opposite. That doesn’t usually seem to be the case.
It’s entirely possible not to be selfish about sex. Even though I am dominant, I am not selfish. I care how my partner feels and if his needs are met. That’s not saying “yay me” – I know a number of people who are that way.
I’m lost on your last remark about the selfless sexist… Unless you mean being selfless is something that the individual pretends to be?
Dear Lady Julia,
I tend to follow philosophical pragmatism as a way to interpret what I hear. I know the definition of “selfless”. It is synonymous with “unselfish”. But the words themselves are not the same as what we are or what we do.
I believe that we cannot be selfless. We can try to do selfless deeds, but even that is nearly impossible. Whenever a person does something voluntarily, there is some motivation behind it. That motivation thereby makes it impossible to be selfless.
Since this comment was in connection with sex, I will give you two examples. I do many things for my wife that she could do herself. I do these without her telling me or asking me to do them. If she were to tell or ask me to other things, and she does, I will do them also. For this she need not do anything specific to reward me. One might say that I am being selfless. But I know otherwise: I am motivated by my need to help and to serve her. So, when I do, I feel good. Then the question is, “Am I doing this for her, or for myself?”
About being selfless in sex, it gets even more blatant. Something that we have done often is my giving her oral sex without her reciprocating in any way. She achieves several orgams, I none. Yet I get tremendous joy out of the entire session that ends with such trusting intimacy. I enjoy the closeness, my hands on her body, the sounds she makes, the scents and flavors, and the fact that I can give her so much pleasure. This may sound like another “selfless” act, but as I said, I know better. This is why it is hard for me to believe that anybody can be selfless, especially in sex.
And yes, some individuals do pretend to be selfless. I have read postings by men who claim to be selfless by saying that they will do anything that their owner, mistress, etc. want them to do, and expect nothing in return (as long as they are treated a certain way).
I understand what you are saying and on a philosophical level, you are of course correct that no act can be truly unselfish.
That said I think it is important not to lose track of the point of this post. If a man pushes/guilts his wife into doing things that make her very uncomfortable then he’s being sexually selfish. If a woman refuses to even consider her partner’s wants and needs and makes no effort to even understand them, she’s being sexually selfish. If that works, fine, but I think for most people it doesn’t. It hurts when someone disregards our feelings/desires without even making an effort.
There is a middle ground to be found if we are unselfish enough to look for it.