For the last few days I’ve been following an interesting discussion at “Whatever She Says“. I will preface my remarks by stating I genuinely feel for the blog owner and his wife. He seems to be sincerely attempting to resolve the conflict between his wants and needs with those of his wife. That can’t be easy when they are so very different.
I’d also like to clarify that I in no way think a Femdom / Female Led Relationship is all about the woman, nor do I think failed attempts to follow that dynamic is solely the fault of the man. There are two people in every relationship, both with wants and needs. Both have a vested interest in finding an agreeable way for those needs to be met and many of the desires fulfilled. If they don’t, how will the relationship survive? That said, does that mean all his wants and needs are going to be met his way? Well, you tell me.
When attempting to find an established dynamic that works for both, I believe it is paramount that both possess realistic expectations as well as a willingness to be accountable for our individual actions. There are a few “truths” circulating through the Femdom / Female Led Relationship blogsphere that I believe do damage to some who are attempting to achieve those things.
In the comment section of the post I referenced above, “Very Happy Wife” remarked:
When a man has an orgasm his overall behavior changes, and usually not for the better. His submissiveness diminishes and can take several days or weeks (depending on age) to recover to an acceptable level that his wife will enjoy.
That is why a husband should not masturbate unless his wife tells him to do it right then and there. If she says do it when you want once in a while, I don’t mind, she will not get the full effect of having and enjoying a horny husband. And he is not helping to fulfill a wife led marriage. If whatevershesays doesn’t masturbate, even with his wife’s reluctant ok, he will be a better husband, and his wife will see the better state that he has kept himself in. In other words, without an orgasm, he will give his wife alot of devotion and adoration, she will apreciate that and see the nice difference.
He can tell her that he is saving himself for her, she is the one who owns him, so he wants all of his pleasure to come from ONLY his wife. But he must make a promise to his wife, as my husband did to me, not ever to masturbate again. I have had my husband denied for up to 10 weeks at times, he is so submissive and wonderful after 3 weeks that I really hate to give him relief. It pleases me to have him that way longer and longer each time. He has said that if that is what pleases me, then he wants that also. We do make love often, but he is only allowed a certain number of strokes in me and then he must take it out. Of course I get my orgasms. I have told him that accidents are forbidden, and that the punishment for having one is 6 months of absolutely no sex for him in any shape or form. It has been years now that we have this relationship and he has not disobeyed this.
Remember, between 6 and 10 orgasms a year is more than enough orgasms for a husband. I like to go on the lower side of this scale. It works for us. Thanks!
I absolutely know this is not the case for all men. Sure, everyone has that, “Oh wow I can’t even be bothered to move” time after release, but days or weeks? Is that true for most of you?
It’s one thing to say, “Orgasm denial works well for me, it helps motivate and focus me”, that’s constructive information. “I have to have it this way or I cannot live up to my promise to surrender control to you” seems to take the power away from the Domme and place the surrender on an act. It also seems to say “I can do this if you do something sexual to me, but I can’t surrender out of love and desire.”
Perhaps it’s all just perspective, but then again, isn’t D/s a perceived exchange of power? How we view what we are doing and why makes a conscious and subconscious impact on the dynamic.
Besides, and this will surprise you I am sure, I do not like being told I have to do things a certain way ;)
“Remember, between 6 and 10 orgasms a year is more than enough orgasms for a husband. I like to go on the lower side of this scale. It works for us. Thanks!”
I can respect that it works for you, but how did you arrive at a number that is applicable to every man?
Denial is appealing to some men, but what about we ladies who love controlling his arousal and feeling, watching, and/or hearing him release? Those are things that excite me and give me pleasure. Why is my control any less if I say “release” as opposed to saying “no”?
I’m not saying there doesn’t need to be a sexual component to a relationship for most people (not just men) to be happy. I’m merely saying in a FLR/Femdom relationship, isn’t the “how” by definition up to her?
“Worship Her” went on to add:
Lady Julia, wives really do not want their husbands to be relieving themselves, or whacking off as he wrote. They do like us better when we are very horny and then very attentive. If whatevershesays makes the decision not to do it himself, as the above post states, he will be a better husband and more devoted. Lets face it, after an orgasm our attitude changes about our sex turnons, they are there but put way on the back burner until we start getting horny again. And then they surface. His wife will like the changes in him and ask why. She will like not having the high and lows in his libido. Always high. Then she will realize how important it is that a wife maintain strict control of orgasms she allows every so often to her husband. And bad behavior results in her punishing him by adding weeks or months onto the wait time. My wife adds months now. Twice in 3 years I have made her very angry. The first time was 2 additional months, the second time was 3 months of more wait time. She did cut that back though, but next time she said she will not.
Although wives are in charge, sometimes they do need a few suggestions, especially on male behavior. It makes for a better WLM.
Oh? I didn’t get that memo about wives not wanting their husbands to relieve themselves :)
Certainly I like it when he’s denied and horny and that’s one “tool” of Femdomness that I enjoy using. However, I expect him to be attentive period. Shouldn’t *I* be the motivator for his attention?
I’m entirely respectful that these things work in both your relationships, but don’t we each have to determine what works in ours? There is no “one way” to do things.
For a while now I’ve be silent when I read comments like these, but I do have a concern when I read that a woman *must* do certain things to control her man. Won’t forcing foreign ideation on her only serve to frustrate her, leave her feeling she has failed, and ultimately leave their attempts at a Femdom/FLR relationship an abysmal failure?
“Although wives are in charge, sometimes they do need a few suggestions, especially on male behavior. It makes for a better WLM.”
Absolutely. I have never thought or suggested otherwise. I can’t lead if I don’t know what he needs and what pushes his buttons. Those are some of our best conversations. I love knowing what makes him tick and why, because it makes controlling him exciting and leaves me with not only a number of ways to accomplish my goals but also helps me when I attempt to discover things even he doesn’t know ;)
As always, this is my point of view. I’m sure there are a number of differing opinions among my readers – opinions I am eager to hear. Comment away ;)
No related posts.
I enjoy a wonderfully fulfilling “femdom” marriage, but it has a whole lot more to do with romantic love garnished with submission and obedience than kink. I get my rewards, but only when I’ve consistently earned them. I have had the pleasure of “teaching” my Queen the merits of a “femdom” marriage through writing. I communicate better that way. Anyway, I wrote her a nice letter explaining very clearly what I was looking for and how this could make for a beautiful marriage. She was very open and very pleased, but didn’t really understand that I was very serious about wanting to be openly submissive to her. The road to open submission has been fun. I often write in a journal my thoughts, dreams, fears and fantasies. Then I will ask her to read my journal entry and talk about it. In this way I have been able to completely open up to her and at the same time teach her. I had spent years dreaming of and fantasizing about being a submissive husband to a woman…. JUST LIKE MY WIFE. My wife had never even considered the merits of being lovingly dominate to submissive husband. Through writing I have taught her. It is exciting to watch her dominate nature “come out”, now that she is sure it’s really very very attractive to me. I have been careful to teach her about “topping from below” and how just because I describe something that I think would be “off the charts” exciting….. she should take all this for informational purposes only. My writing is not her script, it’s just a window to my soul that definitely gives her all sorts of useful information about what makes her submissive husband squirm.
Warning: Idealism and possible D/s anathema !
Leaving tantric interaction between people out of this conversation, most people in the throws of sexual pleasure are experiencing far more subconscious activity than conscious activity. In other words, most people are in a trance when they are having sex, (including foreplay and after-play). When a man has an orgasm his body produces a very unfair shot of a hormone which causes him to feel overwhelmingly tired. When a woman has an orgasm she gets a shot of a hormone which makes her feel all chatty and cuddly. Most unfair, this design. Most unfair. Enter Femdom, with it’s formulas to prolong male attentiveness by limiting orgasms. This works well for men and women who prefer to have their relationships guided more subconsciously than consciously. The male orgasm control is pre-arranged in order to avoid unwanted behavior, (lack of attentiveness to the female).
Of course, it is always up to the individuals involved just how much of the above is consciously understood, but from what I have seen of Femdom power exchange, a great deal of subconscious manipulation is taking place. Even the woman may be residing in a trance of pleasure for times longer than most vanilla women get to know. Is this wrong? No, of course not. As long as there is informed mutual consent beforehand, it’s all good. Is it ideal? Maybe.
Many submissive men and many dominant women take the concept of the male’s inability to be attentive after orgasm as the foundation upon which all sexual play follows. But, a man can, through conscious willpower, be just as attentive after an orgasm as before. Furthermore, there exist many opportunities for him to develop better post-orgasmic attentiveness habits, the least of which include the employment of hypnosis. If a man can experience multiple orgasms via hypnosis then why not also experience prolonged devotion to his partner, even after ten orgasms? Why not hypnotically enhanced devotion? I am not trying to disparage anyone’s D/s arrangements, but there is always more than one way to deal with a problem.
Arafin
Just checking in. I found this discussion interesting. Six to ten a YEAR. Oh mine. And he is OK with that.
I AGREE that men are not all the same (Also, women are not all the same). What works for one couple may NOT work for another.
Will
P. S. Sorry about the shouting ;-)
As someone fairly new to FLR, I’m definitely open to advice – and was definitely prey to some of those aforementioned Absolute Truths of Femdom. It was only when I stopped listening to what I *should* be doing – and instead focused on what I *wanted* to be doing – that I began really having fun. A lot of fun. :) I’m convinced now that, if my boyfriend hadn’t introduced me to female dominance, I would’ve eventually discovered it on my own. Not the whips ‘n chains part (which I don’t care for) but the teasing. The tantalizing. The drawing of his passions to the edge of ecstasy… and then playfully pulling back. I’m gradually acclimating myself to other kink, and my boyfriend and I have an ongoing dialog about what works, what doesn’t, what each of us wants, ect. But I believe – and you’ve mentioned this several times – that what a new Domme needs the most is space. Space to learn, grow, make mistakes, and find herself. It wasn’t until my boyfriend discovered that (and stopped topping from the bottom) that we actually got somewhere. Somewhere happy and fun and satisfying. For both of us.
I’m not sure where the arbitrary 6-10 orgasms/yr came from, but it could never work for me. My boyfriend is 25 and I’m a couple weeks shy of 24. Forget 6 orgasms a year. Guys his age probably whack off 6 times a *day*. If I told him that his releases would be as drastically curtailed as that woman suggested, the poor guy would probably die of a broken heart. :( And that wouldn’t be fun. Why not instead keep him wondering, guessing, and tantalizingly (but not frustratingly) on edge. And then – when he least expects it – blow his mind. Or not. :) Now, *that* is my idea of a good time.
Life in general is not a one-size-fits-all kinda deal. So, why should our relationships be? I applaud you for the depth and authenticity of your writing. In the internet realm of latex, crazy fantasies (and more male body parts on display without warning than I actually care to see, haha) your blog is a wonderful breath of fresh air. And a true class act.
I was going to respond on my blog but you’ve done a much better job! :)
6 to 10 orgasms per year….well, what should be noticed is that she “plays” with him, daily if I remember correctly. Well, my wife doesn’t. So just waiting till she decides to have some sexual interaction with me could take a long time. And realistically, at least for me, I can’t nor do I want to go a month just serving her non sexually, getting horny with NO sexual play from her. I just feel ignored and get angry. Hey, that’s just me. LIke LJ said, even in wife led marriage the wife has some responsibilities. After all it is a relationship.
I just spent 5 days on a trip and will be cleaning around here today. My kids are off from school so I won’t really have a chance to “wack off.” I figure I’ll wait till to:) (God, what would I do if my right hand got chopped off? LOL
LJ, thanks for a thoughful posting. I guess, in the end, it’s about communication and what both people want.
“6 to 10 orgasms per year….well, what should be noticed is that she “plays” with him, daily if I remember correctly.”
Is that small number of times healthy for the prostate?
Is that small number of times healthy for the prostate?
David, I’ve read conflicting reports about the harm of long term denial. There’s information offered on Wikipedia and AllExperts.com that you might find informative.
I also find it funny to read blogs and comments when the person makes a universal rule based on one observation or on the current myth. This belief that men are more subservient when they are denied could be researched in a scientific way to prove once and for all its vericity. Although there is some truth to what a man is willing to do changes upon orgasm, it is not a true/false test or result of his devotion, love, or willingness to serve a woman. The whole thing is silly when put into words such as by the woman whom you quoted.
The problem in all these blogs and comments is that there is no commonly accepted definition of anything more complex than the meaning of “yes”. When we assume that everyone out there understands the words and terms the way we do, we fail in our attempt to communicate.
This thing about men in general losing their veracity upon orgasm is true to some extent sometimes for some men. Did I just make a meaningful statement that can be applied to all men all athe time? I don’t think so.
Hi. I agree with much of what susan’s pet said. Anyway, took issue with the following:
“It also seems to say ‘I can do this if you do something sexual to me, but I can’t surrender out of love and desire.’”
Love and desire can diminish if one person in a relationship (the leader in this case) becomes selfish, unreasonable, or cruel. While the wife may be the leader in an FLR, a leader has to govern fairly and compassionately to be continually followed. That said, a little denial is one thing, but I don’t think a submissive man would be wrong to speak up if he feels his wife has taken things to an unreasonable point. A submissive man is still a person, after all.
On that note, the first person you quoted sounded absurdely selfish. And I’m perplexed by this myth that denial comes at no cost to women — as though they aren’t human beings who feel sexual cravings for their men.
“I’m not saying there doesn’t need to be a sexual component to a relationship for most people (not just men) to be happy. I’m merely saying in a FLR/Femdom relationship, isn’t the “how” by definition up to her?”
Not entirely in all cases. You yourself said “it is paramount that both possess realistic expectations. . .” Realistically, I can’t see every FLR relationship being one in which the male yields to everything. Again, submissive men are still people, not robots. If a woman’s expectations are deemed to be unrealistic by her man, then obviously he should speak up. Same the other way around.