Recently, both here and on his blog “She Deserves My Very Best“, Rex has been discussing the ups and downs of his Wive Led Marriage.
He remarked,
Some have suggested I don’t know what my wife wants. O’contrare. I know but I far too often don’t deliver it. I take full responsibility, but why when a man suggests he enjoys being motivated by the sexual component of WLM does he get branded as “topping from the bottom”? Guilty as charged I guess. I genuinely enjoy serving and pleasuring her much more than seeking my own pleasure. I thought that was the definition of being submissive. Why is it that to some the idea that there is something “in it for us” makes our experience somehow not valid or less than honest?
I think that’s a valid question.
It’s easy to say, “accept whatever she gives without asking for more”, but I consider that difficult if there is a great imbalance in the amount of attention each receives. It’s wonderful for a Lady’s partner to actively seek to please her. I feel I am within my right as the Domme to expect that. However, I can’t see any attempts at Femdom lasting if I don’t reciprocate. Yes, the “how and what I do” is my decision, but I cannot forget he needs attention as well. In order to help make sure this process doesn’t fail and that he isn’t topping from the bottom, he has to be realistic, avoid getting carried away with wanting more and more, and accepting that I’ll choose the way.
A periodic review regarding how the relationship is progressing, what each needs and wants, etc. seems important to me. Sometimes people consider any feedback from the submissive to be topping, but I don’t consider that to always be the case. If he has surrendered control, that infers a great deal of trust that I will be concerned about his needs as well as mine. In order for me to do that, I have to know what they are. I don’t consider it to be topping if he shares in an open, honest, non-manipulating, non-pressuring manner. If he is manipulating or pressuring, I need to call him on it.
There are some that profess Femdom is easy, that it takes little to no effort on the part of a Real Domme.* I believe it takes effort on both sides to make any relationship work. Each party has their own rights and responsibilities, their own needs and expectations. I believe ignoring those principles will at a minimum result in two very unhappy people and could well lead to the failure of the relationship.
As always, this is my point of view, a point of view that I know is not shared by everyone in the Femdom, FLR communities. That’s ok, as always, your mileage may vary.
~
*The term “Real Domme” is a registered trademark of the One True Way Society. All rights reserved.
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This approach seems reasonable. I never understood those who say it’s all about the woman.
When someone says “I am supposed to get my satisifaction from the relationship by obeying and serving her” are also the people who say a woman should find it satisfying to push all his sexual buttons. That might work for some people although I am skeptical.
I know it wouldn’t work for me.
Very nice post. I think your comments apply to any type of relationship not just domme/submissive ones.
It would be nice if relationships were effortless. But maybe what makes a good relationship extra special is the care and effort each person puts into it. If it was effortless maybe we would not prize it so much.
It is my experience that any relationship that is totally one sided will fail. Doesn’t have to be 50-50. But both sides need to be getting something out of it. Ideally the parties involved are getting more out of it than they could do on their own.
Mike
This post really hit home. I think one of the hardest things to do is to stay intentive to your spouse when your needs are not being met. This holds true in not only a vanilla relationship but more so in a FLR. Everyone wants to feel important and worth the trouble.
I think one of the problems guys have as subs as they expect there wifes/Mistress to know what they need. Being submisisve doesn’t mean being a doormat or a mute. Like in a normal relationship if things aren’t working you need to COMMUNICATE!!!!! It’s easier for the domme as she is requesting what she needs. That’s simple. Besides if you are a good sub and have been paying attention you should know her needs without her having to ask. If you don’t speak up and say something then you will begin to harbor a resentment.
The best explanition of a resentment is this, resentments are expectations under construction”
You also have to understand that life happens. Not many of us really live 24/7. It’s just not realistic. Speaking up and voicing your concerns is not topping from the bottom. Once you have done that it’s up to her to see what’s missing and do to something about it.
As i wrote in blog yesterday asking your Mistress to understand yoyr needs without telling her is paramount to throwing darts in a dark room and hoping to hit the target. You also need to understand that just becuase you asked doesn’t mean you’ll get.
This tells all the topping subs that it is ok for them to be the way they are. Submissive men everywhere are thanking you now. How are wives supposed to be in control if their husbands get their way?
The Domme is in charge. She decides what happens. He is there to meet HER needs not the other way around.
Your style of “dominance” is more like submission. The way you explain it you are there to serve the wants of your sub and he’s the one in control.
My boy told me about your blog which he found from your comment on another blog. My dear I believe that you are confused about the workings of a Female Dominant relationship.
Core principles for Female Dominant relationships:
The Dominant makes all the decisions. She does this because she knows what she needs and what is right for him.
She maintains firm discipline and does not let the submissive grow lazy or whiny. She strongly punishes him when he is not obedient.
She never lets him top. What you are suggesting is blatant topping.
he is happy to make Her happy. his needs are met by making Her happy. he has no other sexual needs other than to please Her.
You do a disservice when you write things that are confusing to the male mind. Keep it simple, clear, and firm.
Mistress of the Night
Core principles for Female Dominant relationships:
Yes, it might work well for those of you living on Planet Gor, but for most of us living in the real world (i.e., western culture), your principles don’t necessarily hold true. Believe it or not, being dominant doesn’t automatically make one smarter, much less a mind reader. No, really. In fact, from what I see on the net, claiming to be dominant sometimes corresponds with an attitude that suggests that the dominant is not actually interested in a relationship, but rather, in having a robot.
IME, relationships work better when both partners get what they want. Nothing confusing about that.
Ah, the One True Way club. It’s kinda funny how they’re alive and well – even in so-called alt communities. I mean, the collective One True Way of western culture says that we should all (of most) get married sometime before 30 and then let the guy have at least a slight upper hand in most major decisions. You’d think that femdom, being its own deviation from the norm, would allow at least some individual freedom. My mistake.
Either way, that whole autocratic femdom thing just doesn’t appeal to me. Masculinity is sexy. Intelligence is sexy. And yeah, even a little sass is sexy – providing that it’s duly “punished.” ;) My boyfriend is a mechanical engineer and one of the smartest guys I know. Why would I ever want him to negate a quality that I find so appealing and become a mindless drone-sub, just to satisfy the members of club One True Way?
I find myself agreeing with Mike again. You comment applies well to a vanilla relationship. As you know, I’m vanilla. My interest in hypnosis is why I found your blog, Your personality is the reason I keep returning.
My lady and I have both learned that when life events cause one not to pay attention to the other, we can find something else to do (call other family members, visit with friends, watch TV, read a book, etc).
My experience is that a relationship is about the needs of all parties involved.
You do a disservice when you write things that are confusing to the male mind. Keep it simple, clear, and firm.
(sarcasm) Yes, poor helpless, spineless, imbecilic men. Can’t control themselves, can’t comprehend words of more than one syllable, can’t accept responsibility for their actions. (/sarcasm)
Most men are more than capable of understanding anything I’ve written. In fact, quite a few of the ones who read here are far more intelligent than I. They’re successful, strong, and responsible. They choose to surrender out of a desire to do so, not because they are incapable of making it through life without some big, bad, Domme taking care of them.
Your style of “dominance” is more like submission. The way you explain it you are there to serve the wants of your sub and he’s the one in control.
Because I care about the needs of my partner? I thought that just meant I had a heart. Thanks for jerking me out of my own private fantasyland….
Good Lady, thanks for sticking up for yourself. It’s a great thing to see.
Isn’t the point of any relationship mutual satisfaction? Be it through growth, overcoming obstacles, or whatever route, the posts by Her Pet and MotN sound as if it’s a submissive’s role to be miserable for the enjoyment of the dominant. This is why folks who choose to identify with anything alternative get such weird looks. What really tweaks me is the whole “submissives should have no sexual needs other than to please her” bit. Aside from biological plumbing issues for men, that’s demanding that millions of years of emotional and psychological evolution be simply disregarded. It’s this assumption that leads to so many burnt-out and damaged subs, and the veracity with which “the scene” looks to reinforce it makes it even worse.
I could go on for ages about language and labels and self-perception, but for most people, even (dare I say especially!) in the D/s dynamic, a couple that empowers one another through their interactions leads to some wonderful things. It can heal minds, as so many of us sorely need.
An example of my own – Throughout my own upbringing, I was subject to a substantial amount of emotional and psychological trauma. Depression, body dysmorphia, and puberty make a rather explosive mix. Most I managed to get close to only allowed such closeness to make the heartbreak that much more comical in their eyes. Years of this reinforced with various scare tactics have even now, 10 years later, left me in near-shambles emotionally. Even tease and denial games bring about that same gut-wrenching feeling of rejection and disdain. It’s on a level that would take far too long to articulate.
According to those above posts, I should just completely ignore my mental state, my conditioned reaction, my psychological health, and simply accept that rejection. I’m obviously topping from the bottom anyway, right? In communicating (and in large part, her bearing witness to the formation of) these issues to Frida has led to a minor inconvenience at first, though she’s come to help guide me through dealing with that pain. Through that empowerment, that acceptance, and that knowledge, I’m on track to become normal again in a way that would have been impossible in the OTW “subs get nothing ever ever!!!1″ form that did so much damage to begin with. Her finding my needs have made me better able to serve. Maintain your assets, and they’ll last longer.
Mistress of the Night wrote:
My dear I believe that you are confused about the workings of a Female Dominant relationship.
Core principles for Female Dominant relationships:
She maintains firm discipline and does not let the submissive grow lazy or whiny. She strongly punishes him when he is not obedient.
You do a disservice when you write things that are confusing to the male mind. Keep it simple, clear, and firm.”
I am amazed by how very many people so easily confuse “reading a blog post” with “permission to dictate”. Oh well.
Mistress of the Night – I am so very sorry to hear that despite your firm discipline and repeated punishments, your partners can still be lazy, whiny, disobedient and easily confused. Your story only serves to increase my appreciation for my own partners who diverge widely from the difficult behaviours you described. So I’d like to take this opportunity to thank you for reminding me what rare gems my partners are. I wish you the best of luck in future with finding partners who have more of the qualities you desire.
And I’d like to extend an especial thank you to kvetch for cheerfully bouncing out of bed early this morning to bring me my coffee sooner than usual. :)
Lubyanka thank you for your sincere response. It is easy to see why you are so beloved in your part of the world! Kvetch is a lucky man.
By the way, I commend your bravery when selecting your monikers. Since Kvetch means “constant complainer” and Lubyanka is the name for the headquarters of the KGB and a prison in Moscow most people would be concerned others might wonder at how well-fitting your choices are. So few people care about what others think but it is an admirable quality and one I share.
Julia my intent was to help you dear. You appear sincere even though you are ill-informed. My boys are obedient and well-trained but they were not this way when they came to me. Men require structure and precise direction.
I have really enjoyed the discussion. I thank you again Lady Julia for so artfully expressing your profound understanding of the whole wife lead dynamic. I have indeed struggled with the mistaken notion that she must be firmly established as some kind of uberdomme to achieve long term success. That simply doesn’t exist no matter what the OTW’ers would like us to believe. We will have our ups and downs but I hope we will both continue to inspire each other to stay the course. Sharon spent some considerable time last night reading your blog and comments and I know she is drawing strength from them. She is the most confident I have ever seen her and it makes me melt before her.
I said “So few people care about what others think but it is an admirable quality and one I share.”
I meant to write “So few people don’t care”.
rex wrote:
“I thank you again Lady Julia for so artfully expressing your profound understanding of the whole wife lead dynamic. I have indeed struggled with the mistaken notion that she must be firmly established as some kind of uberdomme to achieve long term success. That simply doesn’t exist no matter what the OTW’ers would like us to believe.”
In your nicely put thanks directed to Lady Julia, you referenced a suggestion that you may be limiting your ideas of success to unrealistic concepts of “the dominatrix”. Whilst I heartily agree that Lady Julia has bucketloads of worthwhile ideas to share and merits every expressed appreciation she receives, on this particular occasion I wanted to point out that the helpful suggestion you referenced was actually made by me.
Lady Julia, I agree with Rex that you have done an excellent job for years now in explaining female led relationships in a way that is realistic yet sexy and exciting. Your whole “If I Were a Vanilla Woman” series was simple, honest, and compelling.
You have definitely earned your place as a leader in the Femdom world.
Mistress of the Night said, “Julia my intent was to help you dear. You appear sincere even though you are ill-informed. My boys are obedient and well-trained but they were not this way when they came to me. Men require structure and precise direction.”
Bullshit. Your intent is to try to make yourself look superior when compared to the other Dommes who comment here and especially Lady Julia. You look ridiculous trying to belittle any of them and especially when you try to belittle someone as respected as Lady Julia.
>>Her pet:
>>Your style of “dominance” is more like submission. The way you explain it you are there to serve the wants of your sub and he’s the one in control.
>Lady Julia:
>Because I care about the needs of my partner? I thought that just meant I had a heart. Thanks for jerking me out of my own private fantasyland….
Dear Lady Julia
You have a heart. A big heart made of diamonds and gold that shines like a sun through anything you do and say warming us all with its gentleness and your wisdom.
–Manet
Thank you Manet. You’re very sweet.
In spite of what some One True Wayers seem to think, kindness and caring does not equate to weakness. I’m not afraid to be myself and I don’t apologize to anyone for doing so.