In a response to my recent post, A Femdom Relationship: What’s in it For Me?, James asked,
If you were not dominant but your husband or boyfriend wanted you to dominate him would you do it? What would he need to do to get you to do it?
James, your question is interesting. I could never really know what I would do, but… because I’ve heard so many stories about women in just this sort of situation, I have given it a bit of thought. I wonder quite often what must it be like to be them – and, what it must be like to be their partners.
I’ll respond, but understand I’m not trying to speak for anyone else. There are some who would never be able to comfortably dominate anyone. There are others who could but may have never been exposed to the idea. I have to answer your question as someone who would fall into that latter category (because yes, I would try.)
If I were going to attempt this and if we had any hope of it being successful, there are several things I’d need from him – open communication, reasonable expectations, accountability, respect, and reassurance that no matter what, our love didn’t hang in the balance.
We would have to talk a lot. I’d want him to tell me what he wanted and needed and he would have to be equally interested in learning the same about me.
When presenting the concept to me, he would have to make certain the information was offered in a non-threatening, no-kink manner. When I was new to the idea of BDSM and was exposed to things I considered at the time to be extreme, I admit it was quite unsettling. So if he came to me as a vanilla woman and asked me to do something I considered “out there”, the reaction would probably not be favorable. If on the other hand he began with something that seemed not too big of a stretch for me, I’d be much less likely to resist trying.
He absolutely could not pressure me. I know he might be tempted to or may even do it without being aware. He’d have utilize caution to make sure he didn’t, and I would need to feel it was ok to tell him when he was. I’d have to believe he would continue to love me and accept our relationship as it was if what he wanted was more than I could do.
He would actually have to let me lead. If he said, “I want you to dominate me” and then went on to tell me how… well, I would hardly be the one in charge, would I? I’m not saying I wouldn’t want him to explain his thoughts and desires to me, because I would, but.. once he did, he’d need to let go and let me be me.
I’d want him to try and understand things from my perspective. For example, telling someone what you want and expecting it to happen feels self-centered to many vanilla women. Being self-centered when you aren’t inherently that way isn’t easy. In fact, trying to be someone that you normally aren’t IS HARD. That may not seem so to those who are often telling their “dominant” partners HOW to dominant, but telling someone how to do things and what to do wouldn’t seem too difficult for those who are already doing it, would it? :) Change takes time and requires patience on the part of everyone involved. Things don’t always move fast enough to suit some, so they coerce, cajole, or complain until their partners are resentful and no longer willing to try. Whose failure is this?
He’d have to be willing to compromise, something much easier for some than others. The vanilla partner is obviously trying to meet him halfway by trying to move to a more dominant position. Sometimes her partner may continue to hang on to his fantasy, his desires, his needs, the way he wants things with little or no graceful compromise. If I felt he was forcing me into a position where, “It’s either this or nothing”, honestly – it would be nothing.
He’d have to take responsibility for his part in the relationship. I cannot imagine as a vanilla woman wanting to make every single decision on every single thing. Certainly that level of control – if it ever happened – would be a gradual thing.
When we had sex, he’d need to understand that I wasn’t going to change into his fantasy Domme overnight – if ever. Positive reinforcement of the things I did that he enjoyed would help a lot. No one wants to feel as if their efforts are constantly falling short. He’d also have to be willing to give me what *I* needed during sex. Since I enjoy romance, for example, then I’d expect that. He may not normally enjoy romantic gestures but if he had his mind set on pleasing me hopefully it would excite him.
I’d need to know he found me sexy. While all the things I’ve mentioned would be important, I think this one is near the top of the list. If he desires for me to control him sexually, then I have to know he wants me more than anything. (It’s not enough to tell me once and expect me to accept it as that way forever. I don’t think a lot of women are wired that way. Many of us need to hear things and hear them often ;)
I’m sure there’s more, but these are some of the things that have crossed my mind when I’ve pondered your question, James. I’m honestly glad I’m not in that position because I know it would be tough on both. You didn’t ask about what I thought he would need, but I want you to know I do understand that this is a deep-seated need for some men and I really love it when I see those who pursue it in a loving, thoughtful manner.
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Lady Julia, what an insightful post. I’ve started reading your blog recently and more than once already, I’ve seen something that I thought I should have my Boy Toy read. I’m not always great at expressing certain things, you see…
As a woman sort of in the position you describe in this post, I can say your reflection is quite complete. Probably more complete than what I’ve come up with, and I’ve been in the situation for over a year ;)
Then again, no one ever asked me that particular question and so I never stopped to think about it that way. Maybe I should.
Lady Julia,
There is nothing more impossible than trying to be some one or persona which we do not own. To do so, I sense, is to write a self-fulfilling script for troubling disaster. To be a different self might work temporarily, but unless we are whom it is we are, there will be no i when our me surfaces.
I agree with you in totum.
Respectfully,
willie
This is really good.
I wonder if any of the people who read what you wrote who need to listen to what you said will listen. I read other blogs and several are written by men who are doing the opposite things of what you said.
Elle, I’ve often gained insight from reading the thoughts of several bloggers, yours included. Thank you for your kind words and all you share with your readers.
Willie, I think we cannot be who we are not, but I do think we can coax out aspects of our personality and make the most of our strengths.
Catherine, I’m glad you enjoyed the post.
I think in life, in almost every instance in human interaction, there is a dominance/submission subtext. To just attach it to kink is silly and unrealistic. Even very young children and babies are hardwired to “get their way” with each other as well as to manipulate their parents to get what they want.
Throughout life we all have people who dominante us and people we dominate. We all have bosses, teachers, bankers, etc who have power over us and we in turn have power over others around us.
So to try to say that dominance and submission is somehow a foreign concept once we hit the bedroom is silly. Who’s on top, has always been a symbol for one person dominating another and unless someone’s sex life consisted of a limp wife laying underneath an aggressive husband, then virtually every session of lovemaking has some form of power exchange happening.
If a male wishes to have his mate/partner take it to a higher level then complementing her on her prowess as a dominant would go a long way to her behaving, at least occassionally, in a more dominant manner.
I believe most women have to grow into the dominant role and if it is successful, it largely depends on just what she is getting out of it. If being constantly loved and pampered and worshipped is a result of her new found dominance of her male then she may very well take to it like a fish to water. If she just ends up catering to a male topping from the bottom, and carrying out his wishes and desires, it will probably fail.
But to believe that any female in todays world hasn’t fantasized about dominating a male in some form or other is unbelievable to me. It just a question of salesmanship on how you introduce it to her as well as what she gets in return.
I believe we as humans live every single day in a give and take of dominance and submission in just about every interaction that we have. It’s a very human trait. Making it work in a loving sexual overtoned relationship takes communication, and mutual benefits.
Michael
Michael,
I think in life, in almost every instance in human interaction, there is a dominance/submission subtext. To just attach it to kink is silly and unrealistic. Even very young children and babies are hardwired to “get their way” with each other as well as to manipulate their parents to get what they want.
While it is true that we all have interactions with others in which we are more or less in control, in this instance I was speaking of a sexual/romantic relationship because that is how the question was posed.
So to try to say that dominance and submission is somehow a foreign concept once we hit the bedroom is silly. Who’s on top, has always been a symbol for one person dominating another and unless someone’s sex life consisted of a limp wife laying underneath an aggressive husband, then virtually every session of lovemaking has some form of power exchange happening.
While people may be accustomed to being in charge of certain people or situations, I would have to disagree with you that this automatically translates to the bedroom nor is it simply the bedroom where many submissive men wish to be dominated. There are people who do not feel comfortable being in charge. Some are submissive in nature. Others lack the confidence. Still others have been socialized to be submissive. For some, it’s a combination of several things.
If a male wishes to have his mate/partner take it to a higher level then complementing her on her prowess as a dominant would go a long way to her behaving, at least occassionally, in a more dominant manner.
I completely agree. Everyone needs to feel as if what they are doing is appreciated and as if they are doing it “right”.
I believe most women have to grow into the dominant role and if it is successful, it largely depends on just what she is getting out of it. If being constantly loved and pampered and worshipped is a result of her new found dominance of her male then she may very well take to it like a fish to water. If she just ends up catering to a male topping from the bottom, and carrying out his wishes and desires, it will probably fail.
Agreed.
That said, there are women who are uncomfortable in the type of relationship you described. Some people feel better being the person who pampers and worships.
But to believe that any female in todays world hasn’t fantasized about dominating a male in some form or other is unbelievable to me. It just a question of salesmanship on how you introduce it to her as well as what she gets in return.
I think there would be greater success if everything was packaged better, but I think it’s not reasonable to think every woman has an interest in or the ability to dominate a man on a consistent basis. She may be able to occasionally do dominant things, but that’s not the same as being dominant, is it?
Plus… fantasizing about something doesn’t mean we can or even want to do it.
Making it work in a loving sexual overtoned relationship takes communication, and mutual benefits.
Very well said :)
Lady Julia
I think that there’s a lot of confusion people have inside themselves over their own feelings. I’m going to suggest one progression that some have. This isn’t meant to suggest it’s how things go for everyone or even a majority. It’s just one possible progression.
One may have feelings that aren’t well understood or articulated, even to oneself. One may then see a movie or read a book or have an experience that stirs those feelings and one can say, “Oh, now I understand what these feelings are.” It is easy to forget that there is a difference between the feelings themselves and the actions which stir the feelings.
Getting more specific… A person may want his or her partner to be strong and powerful. And then, of course, to witness and experience the strength. And what greater way to experience the strength than to feel it first hand? To be bested by the strength?
A husband who tells his wife, “I want you to dominate me,” may not really understand himself. It may not be the dominance (or the reverse side — his own submission) that he craves. He may just crave her strength and confidence.
Now, given how wrapped up we can become between the original trigger and how we envision the trigger being satisfied, it could be that a D/s relationship is how to satisfy the cravings. However, I propose that the cravings may not be satisfied unless she understands what he’s really asking for.
In the scenario I proposed, he’s asking for her strength, her confidence, and her outward enjoyment of him. He may also want to feel hopelessly (but figuratively) tied to her, and to feel she would have it no other way.
The trappings of D/s may be HOW she’s going to present what he wants, but in this scenario, those are just trappings.
If a woman really loved her husband she could do this. It’s not hard and he can teach her how. Women who won’t do this are selfish and only care about themselves.
What a woman needs to do here is set up a list of demands and enforce them with strong punishment for any failure on his part. It’s what he wants. If she won’t do this then he would be better off seeing a Pro Domme.
Lady Julia,
There is much wisdom shared via your writings.
thanks.
willie
It’s vitally important to remember – and I’m addressing this more to some of your commenters than to you, Julia – that the “vanilla” woman has her own sexuality as well, and she may be just as attached to it as the would-be submissive partner is to his. A woman is not a blank sexual slate on which the man can simply project his desires and hope to have his needs fulfilled, and it’s not fair to ask the woman to get her needs completely filled within a d/s context or not at all. It has to either be a two-way street, or you will need to find another partner whose needs are more compatible with yours.
Dev I agree with you. That’s one of the things that makes Lady Julia’s writings so insightful is that she sees D/s as a balance not something that only one person benefits from. I think the reason so many relationships end is that only one person cares about the happiness of the other or at least cares way more than the other does.
Lady Julia, I know it must be a lot of work for you but I love that you are blogging every day now. Reading your sensible and sexy words is something I look forward to.
Mistress Lisa are you a pro domme?
Yes I am. I have been treated as if I know nothing here but I am a professional. Many men pay for my expertise. Julia’s methods are playtime while mine are serious. Men who come to me are serious about domination. They understand their place and crave what I do to them. They are obedient and respectful.
With no disrespect intended to any person present, I would like to observe that I believe that a professional sex worker, such as a prostitute, does not normally acquire special skills and insights relating to vanilla partnerships as an integral part of their work.
Following on from that, I believe that pro doms do not normally acquire special skills and insights relating to d/s partnerships as an integral part of their work.
Expertly scening is one thing, expertly relationshiping is another.
I would also like to observe that by definition, being a pro dom does not a “serious” method make, just as being a lifestyle dominant does not a “playtime” method make.
In other words, I believe that the merit of a service is most usually measured using criteria other than whether anybody is charging for it.
I’ve heard that there is good money in professional domination. Are the startup costs high and is it something that could be a home based business?
Right now I’m involved in the Pampered Chef program, but with the economy the way it is, I’m not sure that will be viable in 2009.
Lisa:
So, any time a man is with a woman who won’t do exactly what he wants in bed, he would be better off seeing a professional?
Also, not all men, even all submissive men, want exactly the same thing.
Dear Lady,
I know that I am late in responding. Please hear me anyway since I am responding to our writing.
One can theorize about everything (like I do), but one can give authoritative answers only from one’s own education or experience. You have the experience and/or education, so you are accepted by most of us as a person of stature. It is also gracious of you to acknowledge your limitations, “I’ll respond, but understand I’m not trying to speak for anyone else.”
My dear lady, most of us out here are not that astute. We talk as if we were speaking for everybody, yet we know little. We speak of what we think is right. But when challenged to back it up, we are at a loss.
I understand what you say, and what you mean here, “If he said, ‘I want you to dominate me” and then went on to tell me how… well, I would hardly be the one in charge, would I? ‘ Indeed, you would not be in charge.
The difficulty with the subject of Female Led Relationship is that generally it is not started with what a female wants. It is a fantasy of a male who wants it fulfilled. That means, the female will have to do what the male wants. Damn! That is just not right. If the female does what the male wants, the whole thing of FLR is nonsense. So we come around to define what the male and the female want, and take it from there.
Perhaps you could give us the pleasure by enlightening us.
Lisa:
How fascinating to read you whine about how you’ve been treated. Did we hear Lady Julia whine about your disrespectful behavior toward Her on Her own blog?
It seems you are an advocate of blindly doling out punishment, but not so keen about receiving what you deserve, honest criticism.
In any case, your behavior here has been anything but professional.
[...] like an awful lot of work. Not that I’m lazy, but did I really want to decide EVERYTHING? Lady Julia said exactly [...]
Susan’s Pet,
I have read your comment and plan on responding to your question via a post. Thank you for your kind words and your interest :)
Lady Julia
Oh My, Lubyanka,
You have a way with words and ideas. I could have said that, but I always back off in order to avoid verbal confrontation with a female no matter what the words involved are. I did have to take physical action from time to time in my days in law enforcement, but never with “ladies”, just some broads who acted from, you know, “down there” instead of from their brains.