In response to my post, When a Vanilla Partner Dominates, What Does She Need?, Susan’s Pet remarked:
I understand what you say, and what you mean here, “If he said, ‘I want you to dominate me” and then went on to tell me how… well, I would hardly be the one in charge, would I? ‘ Indeed, you would not be in charge.
The difficulty with the subject of Female Led Relationship is that generally it is not started with what a female wants. It is a fantasy of a male who wants it fulfilled. That means, the female will have to do what the male wants. Damn! That is just not right. If the female does what the male wants, the whole thing of FLR is nonsense. So we come around to define what the male and the female want, and take it from there.
Perhaps you could give us the pleasure by enlightening us.
When I wrote the above referenced post, there were things I didn’t address. Your question touched on one of them.
Even though I’ve never been in a position where the female led (male submission and female dominance) relationship was the man’s idea and not mine, I have been in the situation where I wanted to learn about his needs and wants while at the same time maintaining the control over him that we both desired. For us, being pragmatic worked. If we wanted a healthy relationship, we each had to be aware of the other’s wants and needs. So… we set aside times to openly talk about it.
There are checklists out there – mostly BDSM checklists – that opened the door for us to discuss what we liked, didn’t like, wouldn’t do, would do, would do only because it turned the other on, and so on. These types of lists won’t “fit” perfectly because not everyone in a power exchange relationship is into a lot of the more serious kink. We weren’t, but we used one of those as a springboard to discuss all sorts of things. Once we covered the kink, we talked about the other areas like romance, love, “vanilla” sex, etc. (A word on “vanilla” sex. Sex is amazing no matter if kink is involved or not, no matter if it is obvious one of us is leading or not. I think to attach the word vanilla to sex is doing a disservice to sex everywhere and I plan to avoid doing that in the future ;)
It is true that I initiated the discussion, but it could just as easily have been him. As long as the relationship is a loving one, most people will at least be open to talking. Had he initiated the discussion, I’m pretty sure he would have been focused more on what I wanted and needed, but I think it’s healthy that he would want to explain things from his point of view as well. Even if he didn’t address his needs, at that point it would have been automatic for me to ask him. I know that’s not the case for everyone as some people are afraid to ask. “What if he wants something I can’t or don’t want to do?” Not talking about it won’t make it go away so discussing it at least forces us to examine the options.
If I hadn’t been the person to initiate this type of conversation, I really wouldn’t consider him trying to take control of the relationship if he had said, “I’d like to tell you what I enjoy and need, but I want you to understand I’m not pressuring you to do any of this or telling you when to do any of it.” It just seems logical to me that a relationship is doomed to fail if we can’t or won’t communicate.
After he told me, it was then up to me to decide when, if, how, and how often. There can be no pouting on his part, no lack of enthusiasm, no attempts at manipulation. If at any point he decides he doesn’t want me to lead, then he needs to say so plainly and we can decide where we go from there.
Keeping the communication lines open after sex or play is important to me, too. I like to know how he felt, what he was thinking, what pushed his buttons, what didn’t. As a rule I do not like talking about this immediately after unless something went wrong, but usually later on in the day or the next day. It allows passions and emotions to return to a normal level and allows time for reflection.
Bottom line – it’s really easy to get caught up in the “rules” of this type of relationship and forget that the most important thing is a healthy, happy dynamic where each has a mechanism for saying what needs to be said.
No related posts.
(A word on “vanilla” sex. Sex is amazing no matter if kink is involved or not, no matter if it is obvious one of us is leading or not. I think to attach the word vanilla to sex is doing a disservice to sex everywhere and I plan to avoid doing that in the future ;)
I feel so strongly about this I must protest!
“Vanilla” is not a value judgement. “Vanilla” is a delicious, rare, and exquisite flavour! So characterising sex (or anything) as “vanilla” is simply (in my mind) describing the flavour of it, and nothing else.
Personally, I don’t understand why anybody would use the term “vanilla” to describe anything unpleasant, when the flavour itself is so breathtakingly droolworthy!
Ok, I’m done now. Thank you for your indulgence. Please feel free to return to your regularly scheduled droolfests.
Vanilla:
adj.
1. Flavored with vanilla: vanilla pudding.
2. Lacking adornments or special features; basic or ordinary: “We went through a period of vanilla cars” (Charles Jordan).
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
In my experience when kinky people refer to vanilla sex they are typically inferring to it as ordinary or bland.
I agree with Lady Julia. People who are good at sex and who are sexy do not have to have bland or ordinary sex.
I suppose if one flavored it with vanilla pudding that could make it out of the ordinary.
This is one of the most common-sensical pieces of writing that I have come across in a very long time. So many people get mired in the rules and forget to use their brains. I really appreciate that you are willing to write pieces like this even though they may and sometimes do fly in the face of so many other writers when your philosophies are compared.
Occasionally I like a bit of chocolate sauce drizzled on my vanilla:)
“It’s really easy to get caught up in the ‘rules’ of this type of relationship and forget that the most important thing is a healthy, happy dynamic where each has a mechanism for saying what needs to be said.”
This lifestyle is all about rules and formalities. If you cannot get that there is no way you can adequately control your boy. You might be a good vanilla relationship coach. I think that could be. But you have no idea how to dominate.
Any boy that can tell you what to do is in charge. Not you.
Excellent article. Excellent view. (It’s difficult not to see things your way when you do this ……. uhhhhh ……. was that planned?)
My opinion, for what it’s worth, is that there is no such thing as true vanilla. Comparatively, yes, but only in that way. In other words, everyone has kinks. What may seem vanilla to one person might seem super kinky to someone else. If a person tops from the bottom or is naturally submissive without question, if a person is naturally dominant or merely role plays it, their sex life is still kinky to someone and still vanilla to someone else.
The mental state of a happy love life depends far more on honest give and take, compromise, awareness, and compassion than it does on vanilla, kink, D/s, etc., …….. which are but alternate routes to get there. Sure, engaging in a lifestyle that feels right matters a great deal, but that alone will never guarantee success. You are so right that “as long as the relationship is a loving one, most people will at least be open to talking”. No one gets what they desire all the time, but if they communicate with open hearts they will very likely get something even more precious. What they need.
LOL @ Mistress Lisa.
Relationships work when both people have their needs met. That generally takes communication in one form or another. The details of the relationship don’t matter. A D/s relationship still requires both people to have their needs met.
Mistress Lisa it is good to see a voice of reason present here.
His desires do not matter. In a D/s relationship HER desires are all that matters. It is that simple.
I would like to ask Lady Julia and Mistress Lisa:
Are you or were you in a 24/7 D/s situation?
Would you be?
How much influence do you have over your submissive outside the bedroom if you are not in a 24/7 situation?
Would you ever let someone dominate you?
I would also like to ask Lady Lubyanka the same questions.
Gee, that’s odd. I always thought that I was the one who got to decide what kind of relationships I have and how I conduct them. I had no idea I was supposed to set aside my needs and wants in favour of the opinions of total strangers. How could I have missed that?! Silly me.
Ah well, thanks to Lisa and Dick, I learnt something new today.
I must regretfully bow out of the auditions for “Dick’s Dommeliest Domme” competition, because I know I can never win unless I do what he wants, how he wants.
Hey, wait a minute …
Dick I would like to ask you why you care. It is clear you feel Lady Julia’s style of dominance is not up to your high standards so why do you continue to come here?
David, surely you’ve met exceedingly narrow-minded people in the past. You know, the type that think there’s only one right way. They actually occur in every walk of life. Fundamentalist Christians who are ready to crucify anyone who doesn’t subscribe to their narrow view of life. Fundamentalist Muslims who are ready to stone anyone who doesn’t subscript to their narrow view. (And no, I’m not trying to imply all fundamentalists believe this way, just that some do.) Tree huggers who engage in terrorism against places like ski resorts.
Or animal rights groups who do things like break into cars or houses to “return pets to the wild” so that they can all get hit by cars or starve to death while their families grieve, wondering what happened to the beloved member of the household. They ignore the fact that whenever my dogs got loose, they always came home. The dogs repeatedly chose to live “in captivity” because they loved us as much as we loved them.
These people never ever realize what hypocrites they are. Nor are they ever satisfied to live their own lives: they must try to live everyone else’s life, too.
Dick and Mistress Lisa, I find myself like Alice – curiouser and curiouser – about the two of you. It would be very interesting to read about your relationships and how they work. Perhaps you might consider starting blogs? I for one would be there each day to read what you have to say.
Dick, as for your questions, you’ve been reading my blog long enough to know the answers, so… why ask? If you have a point to make, please feel free.
I don’t need to keep a blog. I do not require validation from others to build my self-esteem. That is the primary reason people maintain blogs.
My point has been made over and over but you do not seem capable of getting it. That’s not meant as an insult. You are not as actualized in your domination as people like Mistress Lisa and Bitchy Jones. I think you have potential and that is what keeps me reading. I also like to be here to be the voice of reason to keep balance when you write about your opinions.
Dear Dick,
That was the last comment you will be permitted to leave on my blog. Your emails will go directly to my trash bin. If you wish a forum to speak your mind, you will have to provide it yourself.
Have a lovely life.
Lady Julia